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DevCamp IRC Log 2009-10-24
Collaboration for an Open311 Standard
Log from channel irc://irc.freenode.net/#open311 starting 2009-10-21 14:19:16 -0400
Link to a time in the conversation by visiting a URL like http://wiki.open311.org/DevCamp_IRC_Log_2009-10-24#12:00
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| » You are now known as av_command. | 09:38 | |
| » Shari joined the chat room. | 09:45 | |
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| » Lou_ joined the chat room. | 10:03 | |
| » troy42 joined the chat room. | 10:03 | |
| troy42 | morning gang | 10:03 |
| Lou_ | morning | 10:03 |
| troy42 | how's saturday treating you? | 10:04 |
| Lou_ | well enough i suppose | 10:08 |
| Lou_ | is there a link for a video stream? | 10:08 |
| troy42 | not to my knowledge | 10:08 |
| Lou_ | hmmm | 10:09 |
| troy42 | which, after seeing a photo of the room (no tables for laptops, at least as configured), makes me think it may be a bit idle in here | 10:09 |
| troy42 | http://www.flickr.com/photos/neotint/4037806021/ | 10:09 |
| troy42 | could very well be that they just hadn't put up the tables yet | 10:09 |
| troy42 | and the presence of a tripod is a good sign :) | 10:09 |
| troy42 | whereabouts are you? | 10:10 |
| troy42 | seattle here | 10:10 |
| troy42 | [ Whois av_command (n=philipas@topp148-office-nyc.openplans.org) ] | 10:10 |
| troy42 | there ya go, so it looks like phil cooked something up | 10:10 |
| Lou_ | cool | 10:11 |
| Lou_ | i'm in nyc but getting a late start | 10:12 |
| Lou_ | thought i'd try tuning into the webstream for the first half of the day | 10:12 |
| av_command | troy42: I'm the machine that will be running the audio and video | 10:12 |
| troy42 | av_command: I like machines with personality | 10:13 |
| troy42 | av_command: brew me some coffee? | 10:15 |
| av_command | troy42: there's plenty of coffee over here :) | 10:16 |
| troy42 | i can be there before it's cold =) | 10:16 |
| troy42 | plunges the french press | 10:17 |
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| av_command | how does the video look? http://livestream.com/openplans | 10:19 |
| av_command | then we can test the audio | 10:20 |
| troy42 | loading | 10:20 |
| Lou_ | video looks good | 10:20 |
| JohanArvidsson | looks good | 10:20 |
| troy42 | same | 10:20 |
| » zwarg joined the chat room. | 10:21 | |
| troy42 | audio sounds good | 10:21 |
| troy42 | could do for slightly louder volume/gain | 10:21 |
| JohanArvidsson | audio is good | 10:21 |
| Lou_ | sounds good | 10:21 |
| troy42 | but it's totally audible and would be fine as-is | 10:22 |
| troy42 | yeah, i think so | 10:22 |
| troy42 | seems like a great start, either way | 10:22 |
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| » philipashlock is now known as presenter. | 10:25 | |
| troy42 | good morning sunshine | 10:28 |
| av_command | we're going to wait another 5 or ten minutes to get started | 10:28 |
| » Christophe joined the chat room. | 10:30 | |
| av_command | I'm going to see if I can start the conference call | 10:31 |
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| zwarg | /nick zwarg | 10:35 |
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| troy42 | I'm impressed with livestream's UI | 10:36 |
| troy42 | haven't used it before | 10:36 |
| troy42 | http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23open311 and http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23311devcamp if they're useful for anyone | 10:38 |
| troy42 | or just live vicariously through @philipashlock and @nickgrossman;-p | 10:38 |
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| troy42 | we've got you on livestream | 10:39 |
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| troy42 | i read that speaker's API doc last night, nicely done | 10:49 |
| troy42 | and focused on the portion that should be unique to 311, not recreating other systems or grammars | 10:50 |
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| troy42 | it's at http://api.dc.gov/ if anyone hasn't seen it | 10:50 |
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| troy42 | any online only folks want to introduce themselves? | 10:55 |
| troy42 | Lou_, still around? | 10:55 |
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| presenter | http://etherpad.com/wCotZZ0OCE | 10:58 |
| presenter | we're going to go over the agenda, please add additions | 10:58 |
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| troy42 | Denis__: want to go first on an intro? good to meet you, if only virtually :) | 10:58 |
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| troy42 | Trish: good morning | 11:00 |
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| troy42 | fellow 8 AM-ers | 11:00 |
| jayccsf | hello | 11:00 |
| jayccsf | hi this is Jay Nath from the City of SF | 11:00 |
| troy42 | jayccsf: I saw some of your fingerprints in the wiki changes yesterday. neat to see | 11:00 |
| troy42 | and was reading Newsom's announcement about open data | 11:01 |
| siculars | hi, this is sasha... @siculars on twitter... im thinking of making the trek downtown ;) | 11:01 |
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| troy42 | I'm Troy Davis from Cloudvox. we make it easy to place/receive/control phone calls from your code, in pretty much any language. @troyd on twitter | 11:02 |
| jayccsf | toy42: yeah i put up a draft API that is heavily modelled after DC's | 11:02 |
| troy42 | and generally geeking out over multi-modal apps | 11:02 |
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| troy42 | if anyone else wants to read that, it's http://wiki.open311.org/File:SF_Open311_APIs_V1.pdf | 11:03 |
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| » test is now known as Guest36929. | 11:03 | |
| Guest36929 | testing hello | 11:03 |
| troy42 | hello :) | 11:03 |
| troy42 | "it works" | 11:04 |
| Guest36929 | thx! | 11:04 |
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| troy42 | jayccsf: when we were doing the rest part of cloudvox's api set, we ended up not even bothering with xml or rss/atom | 11:05 |
| » Alissa joined the chat room. | 11:05 | |
| troy42 | and just standardized on json, and that's been well received | 11:05 |
| troy42 | so you might be able to get away with just that serialization, other than maybe rss for a public issue stream | 11:05 |
| jayccsf | troy42: thx for the feedback | 11:06 |
| jayccsf | we weren't sure which protocol to focus on | 11:06 |
| troy42 | i think json has crushed the api market, for the better | 11:06 |
| troy42 | other than rss for non-api reader-only consumers | 11:06 |
| troy42 | one thing we did add based on feedback is POST for pretty much everything | 11:07 |
| troy42 | at least where there's any meaningful query values | 11:07 |
| troy42 | this guy's raising a good point | 11:07 |
| jayccsf | yeah that makes sense | 11:07 |
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| troy42 | i started sketching a phone-centric 311 architecture, that had 3 "sources" - raw recorded audio HTTP POSTed to a destination, transcribed voice, and queued "voicemail" inboxes | 11:08 |
| troy42 | as being the 3 inputs needed for phone call based 311 interaction | 11:09 |
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| Denis__ | Hi this is Denis from 311 toronto (working on User-experience ). Also work with "Trish" from Toronto | 11:09 |
| troy42 | neat | 11:09 |
| troy42 | Denis__: does it have a web page, by chance? | 11:09 |
| Erik___ | Hi this is Erik from Lagan - anyone know if we doing a telephone dial-in ? | 11:10 |
| Denis__ | It sure does (www.toronto.ca/311)...next steps will be to make "self-serve" service request, but are included now under "coming soon" | 11:11 |
| troy42 | Erik___: there is one but i don't know the info, and i don't think it's actively used | 11:11 |
| jayccsf | Erik: the phine dial in sucks | 11:11 |
| davemitchell | I tried the dialin number, but it sounded horrible | 11:11 |
| jayccsf | use the livestream to listen in | 11:11 |
| troy42 | Denis__: wow, nice site | 11:11 |
| » Trish joined the chat room. | 11:12 | |
| Denis__ | Thanks Troy! And thanks for the SF_Open311_APIs_V1.pdf. will look it over in detail and pass onto our team. much appreciated. | 11:12 |
| troy42 | jayccsf: does that API exist in code, or just paper stage right now? | 11:12 |
| jayccsf | we're developing the layer beneath that right now | 11:13 |
| jayhung | can the speaker speak directly into microphone please? | 11:13 |
| troy42 | let me know if you'd need a beta tester, i'm debating trying to code a ruby phone front end for the DC one | 11:13 |
| jayccsf | troy42: we will use the model that comes out of today to start the API dev | 11:13 |
| troy42 | partly for experience but partly because i want to see whether the API can have new inputs grafted on top of it | 11:14 |
| jayccsf | troy42: thx for the offer - we'll take u up on it | 11:14 |
| Denis__ | Did DC just say they're implementing PubSubHubbub into their system...missed the context | 11:14 |
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| jayccsf | Erik: is anyone else from Lagan on the call/IRC? | 11:14 |
| troy42 | it'd be speech recognition + IVR for the Select Service, and transcribed recording or HTTP POSTed URL to raw recorded audio for Create Request | 11:14 |
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| Erik___ | I don't believe so, but I'm not sure | 11:15 |
| jayccsf | troy42: how does the auto transcription work? | 11:15 |
| jayccsf | Erik: i was hoping Tyler would be with us | 11:15 |
| jayccsf | Erik: we're more than happy to share the code that we develop so it can be rolled into the product roadmap | 11:16 |
| troy42 | jayccsf: when you record part or all of a call, cloudvox saves it to a GUIDed URL for your filename, and i've got code to run it through castingwords | 11:16 |
| jayccsf | troy42:checking out castingwords | 11:16 |
| troy42 | jayccsf: i'm documenting that now on our page, but it's just submitting an MP3 URL that we transcode, and getting back the transcoded stuff | 11:16 |
| Erik___ | jayccsf: thats exactly why I am here | 11:16 |
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| jayccsf | troy42:how is the cost supported? | 11:17 |
| jayccsf | Erik: is toronto on Lagan? | 11:19 |
| troy42 | jayccsf: two ways - i'm told they cut deals for larger arrangements (and if not, simulscribe or clicktate would), and 2, their labor cost is far far lower than anyone else listening to audio | 11:19 |
| Denis__ | Jayccsf: Erik: Toronto is using Lagan ECM | 11:19 |
| » Alissa joined the chat room. | 11:19 | |
| jayccsf | hi alissa | 11:20 |
| Alissa | hi can you see me now | 11:20 |
| jayccsf | hopefully u can send a post | 11:20 |
| Alissa | yay! | 11:20 |
| jayccsf | yeah! | 11:20 |
| troy42 | jayccsf: but that's a really good question | 11:20 |
| Alissa | works in ie, that's not good. | 11:20 |
| jayccsf | troy42: there might be a way to do cost sharing across cities | 11:20 |
| jayccsf | or get grant funding for a bit for the pilot | 11:20 |
| troy42 | good idea | 11:21 |
| jayccsf | presenter: let us know if u want to hear from us on the phone about what SF is up to | 11:21 |
| lhl | random q, is there a chumpbot or something logging the channel? a lot of backchannels to pay attention to | 11:21 |
| presenter | jayccsf: will do. Are you on the conference call? | 11:21 |
| troy42 | jayccsf: what's the SFO 311 service written in? | 11:21 |
| jayccsf | yeah - it sucks for listening but don't know for the other way | 11:21 |
| jayccsf | using Lagan | 11:22 |
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| jayccsf | API is being written in java | 11:22 |
| troy42 | we've become rather big fans of ruby over the past couple years, but i'm waiting for someone who wants to co-conspire on a ruby OSS app | 11:22 |
| troy42 | as in, ruby OSS 311 | 11:22 |
| troy42 | using HTTP on the backend as well as on the frontend | 11:22 |
| Alissa | do you want it over the phone? | 11:22 |
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| CLucas_ | easy311.org is all ruby on rails | 11:23 |
| » jayhung left the chat room. | 11:23 | |
| troy42 | oh, very cool | 11:23 |
| CLucas_ | but it is just a prototype using the DC API | 11:23 |
| troy42 | i've been hacking on a little OSS phone call service in plain ruby, maybe i'll put it up on github | 11:24 |
| » Shari_ joined the chat room. | 11:24 | |
| troy42 | CLucas_: given how similar the DC and SF-draft APIs are looking, that seems like a pretty safe thing to build on | 11:24 |
| » Kam joined the chat room. | 11:25 | |
| CLucas_ | I talked to people at rhomobile and they told me they were talking to the city of SF for a mobile app | 11:25 |
| troy42 | http://www.lagan.com/Lagan311.com.aspx looks pretty full-featured, if a tad ugly | 11:26 |
| jayccsf | CLucas: we were considering iphone apps but we're now confident in the API approach | 11:26 |
| CLucas_ | Rhomobile is a cross platform framework supported on iphone, andrid, blackberry... | 11:26 |
| troy42 | Introductory rate pricing is $49,500 for 15 users per year with no additional costs (implementation, hardware, administration, training, support, resources included). | 11:26 |
| troy42 | CLucas_: rhomobile's new pricing model is 100x better than it iwas | 11:26 |
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| Erik___ | Sorry - juggling kids on my end.... yes, Toronto, Boston, San Fran, Vancouver are attending and on Lagan | 11:26 |
| » davemitchell_ is now known as davemitchell. | 11:26 | |
| troy42 | CLucas_: they used to want a rev share | 11:27 |
| CLucas_ | yes I know but I think we revisited their business model | 11:27 |
| troy42 | yeah, the new model is way better | 11:27 |
| jayccsf | try42: do u see an OSS phone app as a threat to peeps like CitySourced? | 11:28 |
| Erik___ | Dave Mitchell (Connected Bits) is our partner | 11:28 |
| Erik___ | We are bringing something like Boston's recently released iPhone App to the market with Connected Bits | 11:28 |
| troy42 | jayccsf: i don't know enough about what drives people to choose, but i could see cities picking winners based on who they advertise for | 11:28 |
| troy42 | whether that's a custom built city-specific one, commercial one or service, or OEMed one from a vendor like lagan | 11:29 |
| troy42 | ie if City of Seattle put something on bus billboards saying "install this", it's going to win in that market | 11:29 |
| jayccsf | troy42: not sure if cities can show preference for any company/app unless they've got a paid relationship with someone | 11:29 |
| jayccsf | troy42: i would be pretty unhappy if Seattle pushed one vendor/model over mine | 11:30 |
| Erik___ | I think Boston may be advertising the iPhone app on buses now | 11:30 |
| Erik___ | Dave Mitchell or Alan Heatherley might know | 11:31 |
| troy42 | yeah, quite a few are doing that | 11:31 |
| jayccsf | Erik: which makes sense as u have an exclusive relationship with ConnectBits | 11:31 |
| troy42 | jayccsf: i think OSS apps would actually get pretty good uptake, from what i've seen | 11:32 |
| jayccsf | troy42: SF is all about OSS so we'd be on that tip | 11:32 |
| troy42 | Erik___: I could actually see a model where Lagan OSSed the core of the iphone app then encouraged contributions, as a way to sell its platform | 11:32 |
| Erik___ | troy - that an interesting concept | 11:32 |
| jayccsf | troy42: that would be cool - they use a lot of FOSS in their architecture | 11:33 |
| troy42 | because that's not where the real money is | 11:33 |
| jayccsf | would be nice to see them contribute back to the community | 11:33 |
| troy42 | and selling a per install unit fee to a govt seems tough | 11:33 |
| troy42 | whereas that's a great lead in for why lagan's backend platform is solid and innovating | 11:33 |
| Erik___ | another question around is if cities can incent users with things like garbage removal vouchers/parking ticket discounts/ etc | 11:33 |
| troy42 | oh, with points or something? | 11:34 |
| Alissa | not sure if we need to incent people. | 11:34 |
| troy42 | submit online and you get faster service? | 11:34 |
| jayccsf | troy42: i think it increases the value of the Lagan system by adopting a FOSS and openAPI approach | 11:34 |
| troy42 | jayccsf: me too, by far | 11:34 |
| troy42 | jayccsf: that's why we went Asterisk, HTTP/JSON, and SIP for cloudvox | 11:34 |
| jayccsf | presenter: can u put the mike with the technical group | 11:34 |
| Alissa | does lagan have nayone at this dev camp? | 11:34 |
| troy42 | and didn't create our own proprietary CloudvoxAPI or something | 11:34 |
| Erik___ | right - with a point system of some sort | 11:34 |
| jayccsf | Alissa: Erik is from Lagan | 11:35 |
| presenter | jayccsf: i've sent them a mic | 11:35 |
| Alissa | ohh nice. | 11:35 |
| jayccsf | presenter:thx! | 11:35 |
| jayccsf | presenter:should we drop off until then? | 11:36 |
| troy42 | Erik___: it feels a little lame to say it, but i think points would go a long way | 11:36 |
| troy42 | philip: you're doing great | 11:36 |
| Denis__ | thanks presenter | 11:36 |
| jayccsf | i guess it's breakfast time for us west coasters | 11:36 |
| Erik___ | I agree on the "points" --- might also create a vehicle to convince cities to capture more customer-specific info (name, ward, etc) which would allow for add'l interesting things - sort of an opt-in if you want to get "points" for reporting important info | 11:36 |
| davemitchell | Hi all; really wish I could join in the discussion but I'm a bit too mobile at the moment (at a red light now :-) | 11:36 |
| Denis__ | yes...enjoying both conversations (webcast) and IRC | 11:36 |
| troy42 | jayccsf: good idea | 11:37 |
| jayccsf | i'm thinking a blood mary | 11:37 |
| troy42 | Erik___: i could see redeeming those on recyclebank or something, or just internally prioritizing by useful reports | 11:37 |
| troy42 | 104 rows in set (0.05 sec) | 11:37 |
| troy42 | er | 11:37 |
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| jayccsf | i like point system idea | 11:38 |
| Erik___ | troy - not familiar with recyclebank but sounds like a good idea | 11:38 |
| jayccsf | we need to think of ways to incentivize folks to report issues | 11:38 |
| troy42 | jayccsf: one big push i could see for citysourced is bridging multiple cities' APIs, and in that, open access is a big benefit for them | 11:38 |
| jayccsf | troy42: agreed but an OSS app could do the same thing | 11:39 |
| troy42 | yeah, but it's not a small undertaking unless the city govt folks sort of "design to" a common API | 11:39 |
| Erik___ | jay - abolutely.... not always about technology alone | 11:39 |
| troy42 | one blessing here is that open311 is ahead of the curve | 11:39 |
| jayccsf | troy42:agreed but the like u said having a common API makes this possible | 11:40 |
| troy42 | it's not like there are 15 different cities who already have different APIs and need to be brought together | 11:40 |
| jayccsf | i also think getting a grant or pooling funds across cities makes more sense that using local vendors | 11:40 |
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| Erik___ | another idea I've been pondering for Open311 is around a "reverse 311" model | 11:40 |
| jayccsf | i'm all for civic apps being built on OSS | 11:40 |
| jayccsf | Erik: can u clarify that? | 11:40 |
| Erik___ | something like an RSS feed for community specific information -- based on the groups you subscribe to | 11:41 |
| » Alissa left the chat room. | 11:41 | |
| troy42 | like everyblock for user-reported problems? | 11:41 |
| jayccsf | Erik:ahh | 11:41 |
| » siculars left the chat room. | 11:41 | |
| jayccsf | yep | 11:41 |
| jayccsf | doesn't Lagan have RSS already? | 11:41 |
| Erik___ | sure --- e.g. I opt-in to the community for Main St Elementary school and get info pushed to me about school closings | 11:42 |
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| jayccsf | just not well known/documented | 11:42 |
| troy42 | now that everyblock is msnbc, presumably it will be going at least a bit more mainstream | 11:42 |
| Erik___ | yes on RSS for Lagan | 11:42 |
| jayccsf | troy42: i think EveryBlock will get bigger with MSNBC | 11:42 |
| troy42 | me too | 11:42 |
| Erik___ | Erik stepped away --- crying baby again | 11:43 |
| » Alissa joined the chat room. | 11:43 | |
| Alissa | test | 11:43 |
| jayccsf | Erik: when ur back - have u worked with any cities on the reverse 311 concept? | 11:43 |
| jayccsf | hi alissa | 11:43 |
| troy42 | btw, if anyone wants one for a prototype, i've got 105 phone numbers ending in *311 across the country | 11:43 |
| jayccsf | troy42: that's good to know | 11:44 |
| » dwins joined the chat room. | 11:44 | |
| troy42 | bbiaf, coffee and stuff | 11:44 |
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| Erik___ | sorry - I'm back | 11:55 |
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| Erik___ | Troy: yes, a bit like Everyblock but more of a structured system | 11:56 |
| Erik___ | let me throw out another scenario... | 11:56 |
| jayccsf | presenter:i'm working on DataCamp west and would like to replicate what u have going on here | 11:56 |
| jayccsf | what kind of camera r u using? | 11:56 |
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| » Alissa joined the chat room. | 11:58 | |
| jayccsf | is the goal of this gathering to have a complete open311API by the end | 11:58 |
| Kam | I think that would be great | 11:58 |
| Kam | not sure we could get there | 11:58 |
| jayccsf | i hope so - seems like we should be focusing more on that than the general discussions (which r great) | 11:58 |
| Kam | if we can get some sort of agreement the larger issues | 11:58 |
| jayccsf | the use case seems pretty straightforward | 11:58 |
| jayccsf | i think we should start with DC's API and go from there | 11:59 |
| Alissa | jayccsf: I think we should all leave with an agreement on what should make up a standard for open311 (a minimum or maximum for that matter). | 11:59 |
| jayccsf | Alissa: agreed - i hope we can get there | 12:00 |
| Alissa | jayccsf: it would be nice to hear more lessons learned from pittsburg and DC | 12:00 |
| jayccsf | didn't know that pittsburg was doing open311 | 12:00 |
| presenter | jayccsf: it's a pretty high grad sony dv cam, can get you more specs on the setup in an email (this is philipashlock as presenter btw) | 12:00 |
| jayccsf | presenter:i'll email u offline thx | 12:01 |
| presenter | jayccsf: i don't think we expect to have a complete spec by the end of today, but we'll have a better sense of the considerations in different cities for making a more universal api | 12:01 |
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| presenter | the current draft apis aren't *that* different from one another though | 12:02 |
| jayccsf | presenter: agreed DC has a great start that we can work from | 12:02 |
| Alissa | jayccsf: they have a iphone app called iburg, i think. | 12:02 |
| Alissa | the developer is in the crowd in nyc | 12:02 |
| jayccsf | luv the name | 12:02 |
| Kam | Alissa: the iburg rep here is Pria (sp?) | 12:03 |
| Kam | she is a prof at CMU | 12:03 |
| jayccsf | is it OSS? | 12:03 |
| Kam | don't think so | 12:03 |
| Kam | not sure | 12:03 |
| Alissa | Kam: yep and has her own company that developed it http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/17/iburgh-complaint-department-for-iphone-gets-to-the-heart-of-city/ | 12:04 |
| Kam | apparently the city council person wants to run for mayor | 12:04 |
| jayccsf | yeah doesn't look like an open source app | 12:05 |
| Kam | does getting into this level of addressing issue the right level right now? | 12:07 |
| jayccsf | Kam: agree with u - this is a concern but more an edge case | 12:08 |
| Kam | 5 more mins | 12:08 |
| jayccsf | meta thought - interesting term | 12:08 |
| Erik___ | where is the meeting being streamed? DimDim? If so, meeting name? | 12:09 |
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| jayccsf | http://www.livestream.com/openplans | 12:09 |
| Erik___ | thanks Jay | 12:10 |
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| Kam | SF? Toronto? | 12:12 |
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| presenter | is toronto here? | 12:14 |
| presenter | I think we're going to reconvene here shortly | 12:15 |
| Trish | Toronto is represented here by Denis, Johan and Trish. But not sure who's still online. | 12:16 |
| presenter | thanks Trish. Do you know what other cities are here remotely other than SF? | 12:17 |
| Trish | Sorry, I don't... | 12:17 |
| presenter | Trish: are you on the conference call, or anyone from Toronto? | 12:17 |
| Trish | No, not me. | 12:18 |
| presenter | Shari: Shari_ are you here? | 12:19 |
| Kam | SF did you hear the question on twitter and mechanical turk? | 12:19 |
| Alissa | presenter: in response to the quesiton about twitter | 12:20 |
| Kam | I guess jayccsf just left huh | 12:20 |
| Alissa | presenter: left conf call | 12:20 |
| presenter | We briefly reviewed the 311 tech from cities involved today. If you're from a city that didn't have a chance to speak, please let me know | 12:20 |
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| Alissa_ | sorry about that | 12:21 |
| Alissa_ | presenter: tweets are entered into the Lagan system by a call center rep | 12:21 |
| Alissa_ | it is not ideal since it requires staff to enter the rtequests | 12:21 |
| Kam | intern based twitter-311 integration ... DC is on to something | 12:22 |
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| Alissa_ | Alissa is here form SF | 12:22 |
| Trish | Toronto is definitely interested in the twitter integration... | 12:23 |
| Alissa_ | idea would be for tags to route the request | 12:23 |
| presenter | Thanks Alissa_ Jay had a chance to talk on the conference call earlier. | 12:23 |
| Alissa_ | to the correct dept | 12:23 |
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| presenter | Whenever there's talk of twitter integration, there should certainly be talk about SMS integration. Twitter is still mostly for techy folks or early adopters. SMS is for everyone, spans the digital divide | 12:23 |
| CLucas_ | when we created http://easy311.org, each time you submit an issue it sends a post to twitter | 12:24 |
| CLucas_ | very basic though | 12:24 |
| Erik___ | Agreed on SMS | 12:24 |
| presenter | Denis__: Johan_ Trish : anyone representing Toronto want to talk about the 311 system there? | 12:25 |
| Trish | I'm not a techie... Denis? Johan? | 12:25 |
| Erik___ | this point about accessing people | 12:27 |
| presenter | Shari_: Shari: are you here? | 12:27 |
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| Erik___ | requires that you can report on who you users are... anonimity is a problem | 12:28 |
| Alissa_ | matt: I think for inclusion as long as 311 has other channels (phone, online, etc) I think inclusion should not be an issue. | 12:28 |
| presenter | or CraigM_ are you here? | 12:28 |
| presenter | anyone from Vancouver here? | 12:28 |
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| Alissa_ | presenter: there may be a skewed vision of what's happening in a city when underserved areas don't report or use 311 for services. | 12:29 |
| Erik___ | the inclusion issue is key... not just about channel choice | 12:29 |
| corbett3000 | good morning all :) | 12:29 |
| johan_ | presenter: later on I can, lunch for my kids | 12:29 |
| mattcoop | http://bit.ly/Open311Vision | 12:30 |
| presenter | Johan_: great, thanks. try to reach me in the channel or speak up on in the call | 12:31 |
| presenter | IRC is probably better | 12:31 |
| Erik___ | ultimately its about improving the city and people's lives -- you need to measure who is being excluded (perhaps by lack of a good channel) and then build processes around bringing more people to the table... | 12:31 |
| Dan__ | re. "underserved areas" - actually when you get use and use data open and public, then you see where/what/who/how much is being reported/doing the reporting | 12:34 |
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| presenter | corbett3000: http://etherpad.com/wCotZZ0OCE | 12:35 |
| corbett3000 | @presenter THX | 12:35 |
| presenter | link to the etherpad for the talk - http://bit.ly/311devcamp-agenda | 12:35 |
| Dan__ | inclusion/exclusion issues are not relevant to the starting process of creating new/more public channels and access. | 12:36 |
| Dan__ | You will find areas you assume to be "underserved" have fullt-time organizers and others who do a tone of reporting on neighborhood services issues | 12:36 |
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| Erik___ | Please pass the microphone | 12:37 |
| » Alissa left the chat room. | 12:37 | |
| Erik___ | hard to hear the back-n-forth | 12:38 |
| troy42 | returns | 12:38 |
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| lhl | q: when people call 311 do they typically get a ticket id to reference? | 12:39 |
| Alissa | lhl: yes they get a request number that allows them to remain anonyomous and still track their request | 12:39 |
| Erik___ | lhl: unless its an info only request - then they get an answer | 12:40 |
| Erik___ | otherwise requests generate a unique tracking number | 12:40 |
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| Erik___ | that ticket number may reference one or many unique work activities that are city-facing only | 12:41 |
| Alissa | presenter: can you pass the mic its hard ot hear the discussion | 12:41 |
| Erik___ | but request id needs to be tied to the work activities in order to close the loop after work completion | 12:41 |
| Erik___ | Thanks Alissa | 12:42 |
| Erik___ | thats the reverse 311 concept example I was referring to earlier | 12:43 |
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| lhl | thx Alissa, Erik___ | 12:44 |
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| lhl | within internal systems, all msg history and interactions are logged. if non-anonymous, are there ways to correlate reporting history or is that not really tracked (for tech or policy reasons)? coming in as a 311 newb, so while ppl are here I figured I'd ask about how the backend systems function | 12:46 |
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| Erik___ | lhl: usually an "anonymous" contact on a service request still requires an email address for status updates. The consistuent's view of the request may not show all the internal-facing history... not sure if that helps.... can you clarify the question? | 12:50 |
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| lhl | Erik___: well a few questions on the internals, but specifically whether it's easy to view all SR's submitted by a specific user | 12:52 |
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| av_command | peter is talking about the application ecology slide on http://www.scribd.com/doc/19885245/Gov-2-0-Summit-The-Future-of-Open-Cities | 12:54 |
| lhl | Erik___: (whether submitters are first class objects) also, for those running 311 systems, what's the percentage of anonymous submissions? and for that, say the % of submissions that aren't actionable? | 12:55 |
| Erik___ | lhl: it depends on the type of request tracking system that you have in place... at a minimun you can track one-offs by request id... more advanced stuff allows citizens to see all their requests and even for city council members to track requests for all consituents living in a particular ward/district | 12:56 |
| Alissa_ | Erik: I'm not sure the percentage but it is high | 12:56 |
| Alissa_ | Erik: for SF we are not concerned abot the requstor as we are about issue description and location | 12:57 |
| troy42 | and it probably is a pretty high # of other people impacted by any specific issue that generates 1 complaint | 12:57 |
| troy42 | whether that's 1:10 complaints:concerned non-complainers, or 1:50, who knows | 12:58 |
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| Erik___ | answer to political buy-in: give politicians an environment to track/log requests for their citizens & reports that identify root-cause issues driving complaints/requests in their voter base | 12:58 |
| Alissa_ | Erik: I agree. in SF we have supervisor district assoicated with our complaint addresses | 13:00 |
| Erik___ | Smile Alan | 13:00 |
| Alissa_ | presenter: yes we can call in | 13:00 |
| Erik___ | Alissa - that's a great approach but also may need to tie that info to non-geo based request types | 13:01 |
| Alissa_ | presenter: not on call on IRC | 13:01 |
| Alissa_ | presenter: jay should be back in about an hour. | 13:01 |
| Alissa_ | presenter: SF is interested in looking at the 3 open apis. | 13:02 |
| troy42 | presenter: i'd love to see some total usage per citizen at some point | 13:02 |
| troy42 | presenter: someone earlier mentioned that they were the busiest 311. i'd be curious whether it's 1 call/year/100 citizens, or what | 13:02 |
| troy42 | s/call/service request/ | 13:02 |
| Alissa_ | Erik: can you provide input on the geocode topic/ issues with APIs | 13:03 |
| lhl | has anyone collected/analyzed numbers? would also be interested in that | 13:03 |
| danlatorre | troy42: i think it was NYC 311 saying they do 45,000 calls per day | 13:03 |
| danlatorre | troy42: will ask him for other metrics, interesting question | 13:03 |
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| troy42 | yeah, i thought i heard that number too | 13:04 |
| presenter | troy42: NYC is the busiest, i think they get 45,000 calls per day | 13:04 |
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| troy42 | that would be 16mm inquiries/yr for a population of ~9mm | 13:04 |
| troy42 | or 19mm over the metro area | 13:05 |
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| presenter | Alissa_: the apis are listed here: http://wiki.open311.org/Open_APIs (all are drafts except v1 of dc api) | 13:05 |
| troy42 | for being first the first attempt, a v1, and actually implemented, the DC guys did a good job | 13:05 |
| troy42 | narrow and useful | 13:05 |
| Erik___ | in my experience roughly 80% of all calls are info-only ... call centers can scale best when supported by a comprehensive knowledge base accessible to citizens... leads to fewer overall calls... the 20% that lead to actual requests are hard to scale --- de-duplication is a helpful thing | 13:06 |
| troy42 | Erik___: that's a funny problem, but makes perfect sense | 13:06 |
| Erik___ | Alissa: a: yes, I can weigh in on the non-geo issue for the API | 13:06 |
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| troy42 | you could have lots of calls per citizen and that may actually be a failure, if those are things that should have been solvable elsewhere | 13:06 |
| troy42 | hadn't thought of that | 13:07 |
| Erik___ | troy: yep. | 13:07 |
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| Erik___ | bon appetite! | 13:10 |
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| presenter | I'm going to see if I can start to bring people back together to get on the agenda for the afternoon | 13:45 |
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| presenter | anyone from SF in the channel? | 14:09 |
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| presenter | we're reconvening, with an agenda for the afternoon specified on the etherpad: http://etherpad.com/wCotZZ0OCE | 14:11 |
| presenter | starting with a few breakout sessions | 14:12 |
| troy42 | no conf call here, just irc geekery | 14:12 |
| » Kam left the chat room. | 14:12 | |
| troy42 | but the tubes are working | 14:12 |
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| troy42 | neat | 14:13 |
| troy42 | amazingly good remote access, btw. way better than i expected or could have predicted. thanks. | 14:13 |
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| presenter | hey jayccsf we're in a few breakout sessions now, let me know if I can help you get connected to one of the conversations | 14:18 |
| jayccsf | presenter:thx | 14:18 |
| jayccsf | presenter:actually heading out agin - was just checking status | 14:19 |
| presenter | jayccsf: no problem. A number of people wanted to hear more from you on the conference call later on. Right now we're in three groups, one on the API | 14:19 |
| jayccsf | ok - i'll be in later in the day | 14:19 |
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| siculars | http://etherpad.com/Gg1kfcXQR3 | 14:19 |
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| mattcoop | http://etherpad.com/PlitXpHwai | 14:22 |
| mattcoop | that's the wiki sprint etherpad | 14:23 |
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| troy42 | thanks | 14:29 |
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| CLucas_ | http://easy311.org/issues/new exanple of using types | 14:40 |
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| Alissa | presenter: can you give the mic to the api gorup? | 14:48 |
| presenter | Alissa: they have a mic, maybe you can ask Kam or someone in the group to use their mic | 14:48 |
| presenter | or I can if they don't respond | 14:48 |
| Alissa | thanks. | 14:49 |
| Alissa | kam: can you guys use teh mic so I can hear you. | 14:49 |
| CLucas_ | we have the mic, thought it was on | 14:50 |
| Kam | sorry alssa | 14:50 |
| Alissa | kam: thanks! | 14:50 |
| Kam | its like a talking stick | 14:50 |
| Alissa | kam: sounds fun. | 14:50 |
| Kam | hard to argue with each other ;) | 14:50 |
| Alissa | kam: hit with it. | 14:51 |
| Kam | Alissa: I'm using it to hold Gov accountable | 14:51 |
| CLucas_ | http://wiki.open311.org/uploads/b/be/SF_Open311_APIs_V1.pdf | 14:52 |
| Kam | Alissa: you looking at our etherpad? http://etherpad.com/Gg1kfcXQR3 | 14:53 |
| Kam | Alissa: were you the one who wrote the SF Open 311 API? | 14:54 |
| Alissa | no jay did, with my input and looking at DC as a model. i can speak to it a little bit | 14:55 |
| Alissa | i'm not technical but i could try to answer some quesitons. | 14:55 |
| Alissa | Kam: i believe that our APIs would be similar to what dimitry is describing. we are abstracting them to RESTful in our middleware and using it to call our CRM specific webservices for our app | 14:58 |
| CLucas_ | Alissa: I like your specs | 14:58 |
| Alissa | Clucas: thanks. | 14:58 |
| Kam | Alissa: perhaps we can deal with the modeling of the service request | 14:59 |
| Kam | by requiring the response match the request? | 15:00 |
| Alissa | Kam: I think I understand. Basically SF wants to strip out all the bs and just take request type, location and image of issue. | 15:00 |
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| Alissa_ | who it was routed to. | 15:02 |
| Alissa_ | like Dept of Public Works. | 15:02 |
| Alissa_ | status should also be duplicate | 15:02 |
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| Alissa | APi Gorup: How would an app developer know DC's machine reader # | 15:08 |
| Alissa | I like that. | 15:09 |
| Alissa | SF will need that as well | 15:09 |
| presenter | Alissa: do you know if Jay will be back at a certain time? | 15:10 |
| Alissa | I thought he was just leavign for a sec. I'll text him now. | 15:10 |
| presenter | cool, thanks | 15:10 |
| Kam | Alissa ... "Alissa: SF will need that as well" which were you referencing? | 15:10 |
| Kam | Alissa: you mean for an asset tag? | 15:11 |
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| Alissa | Kam: yes asset id. | 15:14 |
| Alissa | Kam: What's your ethernet pad link? | 15:15 |
| Kam | Alissa: http://etherpad.com/Gg1kfcXQR3 | 15:16 |
| Alissa | to API Gourp: Can govt reducing limits on what is required to request a service? | 15:17 |
| Kam | Alissa: I'm all about finding a way to limit the complexity required of the user to report | 15:18 |
| Kam | if that means not asking 20 questions to report | 15:18 |
| Alissa | API group: can links be maintained in native CRM, and status is only needed fro customer? | 15:18 |
| Alissa | API Gorup: Also status can be duplicate and native CRM can link the cases and provide the parent service status. | 15:20 |
| Kam | Alissa: what do you mean ...that the status is what ever is in the native CRM? | 15:20 |
| Alissa | yes and the api just pulls status. doesn't matter if 10 requests submitted against yours. At least to you it doens't matter. | 15:21 |
| Alissa | KAm: but to the dept they will be grouped so resources not wasted | 15:21 |
| Kam | Alissa: will a user understand all the internal statuses ... as dimitry was saying earlier | 15:21 |
| Alissa | Kam: no just open or close. | 15:21 |
| Kam | they had "open - late" "open" "closed - late" "closed" | 15:22 |
| Kam | oh | 15:22 |
| Kam | right I would prefer "Open" "Closed" | 15:22 |
| Alissa | Kam: what is late? | 15:22 |
| Kam | Alissa: :-D exactly, and that was what dimitry was trying to say | 15:22 |
| Alissa | Kam: and possible duplicate, but would still get update to Close. | 15:22 |
| Kam | the internal status doesn't always mean anything | 15:23 |
| Kam | to the end user | 15:23 |
| Alissa | Kam: correct, it is mostly useful for supervisors to manage their staff and performance metric themseleves. | 15:24 |
| Alissa | API Gorup: I agree with Dimitry that there are a few cases where additional information is needed, but it should be limited to very few. Even graffiti with image could tell you if its offensive or not. | 15:25 |
| Alissa | API Gorup: Can Dimitry talk about lessons learned? | 15:28 |
| Alissa | presenter: jay is not going to join again. sorry. he's bike riding aorund the icty, it's finally sunny and above 70 degrees here in SF today. | 15:29 |
| Alissa | API Gorup: How is DC dealing with image attachments? SF will be requireing a url because we have integraitons with old mainframs | 15:30 |
| siculars | image attachements = base64 encoded ! ftw ;) | 15:31 |
| presenter | Alissa: ok, thanks for the report back | 15:31 |
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| Alissa_ | API group: ok back on sorry | 15:32 |
| siculars | @Alissa which group are you with ? | 15:32 |
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| Alissa__ | Dimitry: thanks for url info. | 15:33 |
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| troy42 | Alissa_: good for jay =) | 15:33 |
| Alissa__ | API Gorup: I agree you need to add notes or add to the existing request. | 15:35 |
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| Alissa__ | API Gorup: from a govt resource perspective it is helpful to have the requests grouped to reduce updates and closure. | 15:35 |
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| av_command | i'm going to quickly restart the video stream | 15:41 |
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| Erik___ | ok- thanks | 15:42 |
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| Erik___ | who is this thats speaking now? | 15:48 |
| presenter | we're doing recaps from our breakout session. You can tune in via the livevideo | 15:48 |
| presenter | Erik___: this is petercorbett, corbett3000 | 15:48 |
| presenter | of istrategylabs | 15:48 |
| Erik___ | thx | 15:49 |
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| CLucas_ | seems simple and efficient | 15:51 |
| Kam | http://etherpad.com/Gg1kfcXQR3 | 15:51 |
| troy42 | pubsubhubbub comes up everywhere these days | 16:00 |
| siculars | @troy42 cause... it's like the solution to this evil notification problem | 16:01 |
| siculars | push ftw , the push group on google gets some good traffic | 16:01 |
| troy42 | yeah, totally | 16:02 |
| lhl | i've entered the brainstorm/usage breakout session notes in the main pad: http://etherpad.com/wCotZZ0OCE | 16:07 |
| Kam | alissa: jaysscf wrote your spec? | 16:07 |
| Kam | alissa: what stage are you guys at for implementing? | 16:08 |
| troy42 | he mentioned earlier that they were getting there | 16:08 |
| troy42 | past paper stage, but not to active beta yet (i volunteered) | 16:08 |
| Lou_ | good work guys | 16:08 |
| Erik___ | Nice Effort! | 16:08 |
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| troy42 | ditto, nice work everyone | 16:08 |
| Kam | troy42: so are they done with the spec? | 16:09 |
| danlatorre | thanks was great to see this all come together so well | 16:09 |
| Kam | troy42: or still talking about what they want to implement? | 16:09 |
| Erik___ | Thanks for setting up the quality video too | 16:09 |
| Erik___ | cya | 16:09 |
| av_command | Kam: you saw this right? http://wiki.open311.org/Open_APIs | 16:09 |
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| Kam | av yup | 16:10 |
| av_command | cool | 16:10 |
| Kam | I wrote one of them ;) | 16:10 |
| Kam | the SeeClickFix on | 16:10 |
| Kam | e | 16:10 |
| troy42 | Kam: ever get any interest for a phone call service? | 16:11 |
| troy42 | iphone app probably has fairly high penetration, thankfully | 16:11 |
| troy42 | tho i guess it depends on metro vs. suburbs vs rural | 16:11 |
| troy42 | we're spoiled in seattle, everyone has an iphone | 16:11 |
| troy42 | plays with http://www.seeclickfix.com/issues/7425 | 16:12 |
